| Discussion Room Thread |
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 The Holy Spirit and Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand' |
| By DerWingman - 22 Apr 08 |
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 6 Replie(s)
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DerWingman |
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Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:23 pm |
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Have you ever heard of the term 'Invisible Hand?' According to Adam Smith, it's the unseen thing that supposedly makes a free market a good thing for the community.
Here is a quick and dirty description from wikipedia.com:
"...in The Wealth of Nations and other writings, Smith demonstrated that, in a free market, an individual pursuing his own self-interest tends to also promote the good of his community as a whole through a principle that he called “the invisible hand”. He argued that each individual maximizing revenue for himself maximizes the total revenue of society as a whole, as this is identical with the sum total of individual revenues."
Essentially, an individual making economic decisions for one's own self interest leads to the economic betterment of the community at a whole.
There a few folks out there, die hard Christian capitalists, that would say that the 'invisible hand' another word for the Holy Spirit. I am no economist, but as a theologian in training, I just don't see it.
But what do you think? In what ways if any does the invisible hand resemble the third person of the Trinity? In what ways if any does it differ?
I would greatly appreciate any input from someone who has a grasp on Smithian economics!
I would also appreciate any input from someone!
yours,
-Dave!
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Dustin |
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:41 am |
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Well, I had a nice response typed out, and then it was erased by a glitch 
So, I'll give you the quick and dirty response I had:
Basically, I find it hard to assume that the Holy Spirit motivates and moves through individual greed/self-interest in the way the supposed "invisible hand" works within Adam Smith's economic vision. In fact, I would say that the whole idea of the "invisible hand" is an attempt to justify an economic system which, by and large, harms the ones at the bottom while benefiting the ones at the top.
Also, I would be interested to know the economic status of those "Christian capitalists," as I would assume they are not on the bottom of the economic ladder.
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andycouch |
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Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:08 am |
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where i live in west virginia, there are no zoning laws. this means that anyone can build anything anywhere (basically...) as you drive through the mountains, there are some giant houses (maybe even by suburban standards) and right next door, there are single-wide trailer homes with visible holes in the walls. to say that the absurd earning abilities of the mansion-dweller positively affect their next door neighbor by raising the area's net worth is pretty ridiculous. If that were true there would not be children 'living' on one meal a day. if anything, i would suggest that the "invisible hand" smith talks about is not a helping hand at all, but rather a choking one. as neighbors climb the economic ladder of success the wealth of the community may rise but so will the disparity between rich and poor and those with too little will not be able to afford the higher cost of living that comes with a richer community. i would like to meet some of these christian capitalists who, like dustin said, are probably doing pretty well for themselves. i just feel like they would glow in the dark or something... (that's just my little way of saying i think their thoughts are strange, don't worry about getting confused. just think about how you would look at someone who was glowing in the dark... and there you go!)
i think the REAL Invisible Hand of the Holy Spirit comes in when those who are making it realize that they are necessarily tied to those who aren't. then they begin to associate their own freedom with that of the oppressed. i think a good illustration is this moderately popular, perhaps sometimes overused, quote from a group of australian aboriginal activists who said, "if you have come here to help me, you are wasting your time, but if you have come because your liberation is bound together with mine then let us work together."
i think the Holy Spirit can use the greed and self-interest of some for good (i certainly wouldn't put anything past Him). i think He can use it to show people who are really seeking Him how grotesque that desire for things is, perhaps causing them to do something about it, which could be perverted by some into saying that their wealth and greed benefitted the poor, but i definitely wouldn't go that far.
interesting though... thanks for bringing it up!
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jjkbee |
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Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:48 am |
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We had this 'trickle down' theory in New Zealand in the 80's. It was promoted by our (socialist?) Labour party, and was called Rogernomics. The market reforms were supposed to benefit everyone. Well, they didn't.
http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/your-views/2008/3/16/will-you-vote-act-following-sir-roger-douglas-return/
The 90's kick back under National (right wing) were the most miserable (for the poor) in New Zealand's history since the depression. We have had another nine years of Labour (a 'caring govt with a socialist conscience" - their words/not mine) 1999 - the present. The rich just keep getting richer, and the poor keep getting poorer.
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Dustin |
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Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:33 am |
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| andycouch wrote: | | i think the REAL Invisible Hand of the Holy Spirit comes in when those who are making it realize that they are necessarily tied to those who aren't. |
I think this is exactly where the problem lies in the U.S. at present. Not necessarily that most people don't understand this, especially now, but rather that we don't always take it seriously.
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andycouch |
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Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:23 pm |
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it really is so hard to take seriously. especially in our extensive "1st world-dom" where we don't have to see anything we don't want to see (where our food and clothes come from, the poor among us, the face of a real person when we talk to them [myspace, facebook...] etc...) in our ridiculously consumerist, individualistic culture could anything be more difficult than relationships and inter-personal interactions? if there is, it would be hard to find. that's why it's so important to be (church word-) intentional (-gasp!) about even just acknowledging other people's existence. it seems like even the smallest act of making eye contact with people on the street is near impossible!
in a world like this why wouldn't a theory like smith's "invisible hand" exist? it was inevitable. as Christians today, we must focus even more intently because of it on making that tender human connection that changes the world by changing lives. submitting to be the vessels by which God does some of His work in the world.
it's a lot to overcome.
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DerWingman |
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Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:53 pm |
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Wow. Great insights guys.
If you feel like it, take a look at time.com's religion section.
there are some articles on the crossroads of faith and the economic meltdown we are facing in the US.
what do you think?
-Dave!
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